Monday, November 15, 2010

Violence against women

25 Nov is White Ribbon Day

Men are good.

Regardless of the emotional abuse and thoughtlessness many men are subjected to throughout their lives, men are still good.

Hurt and frustrated that many of their basic needs are marginalised and emotionally isolated in many ways men still endeavor to do everything right. Men have pored their energies into their families, through work, (often in dangerous and stressful and difficult jobs) and at home they have protected and provided, been there for their kids and wives. These are good men.

Whilst we can draw a line through Greer and Wolf through to the present day which heaps the ills of the universe on the backs of men there is no ribbon to recognise the good men do, no sympathy for the powerless frustration they feel.

I support White Ribbon Day, and Pink, Red Rainbow and every other fucking Ribbon Day. But to the implicit misandry in this particular day I say fuck you, because men are good.


Ms Smack said...

I agree with you that men are good.

I just don't think that ALL men are good, the SAME as not all women are good.

I'm all about behaviour, not gender.

If a guy belts his wife, he deserves punishment.

If a wife belts her husband, she deserves punishment.


Brie said...

Here Here and well put. Thank you

Ute said...

Ditto to what Ms Smack said.

Doesn't matter the sex. If someone is an arsehole, they're an arsehole.

I'd be behind supporting a "Blokes Day" if you want to start one up.
You've just got to figure out what colour the ribbon is going to be. Although, being blokes, maybe find something a little less feminine than a ribbon.
How 'bout a tie? Black?

Bambam said...

I'd say people are good, in general, until they become cunts...

... like Germaine Greer.

Don't start me on her!!!

unique_stephen said...

If it were a movement to support victims of violence generally then it would have my vote but it is a typical bull shit application of the Duluth Model.

Fact: More men are victims of violence than women.

Fact: More men are murdered than women. - White Ribbon Day is only interested in violence against women, as if somehow men are of less value. But then when it comes to manning the lifeboats - it's women and children first. And those children - are they safe with the mother?

Fact: 65 to 70% of all child abuse-related deaths occur at the hands of their mothers or female caretakers. (according to Wikipedia)

Lets have a ribbon day for the kids.

Who is more likely to work in a physically demanding job, or a job where they are exposed to the elements, work at heights, use dangerous machinery, more likely to die or suffer injury in a work related incident - men. At a higher personal risk than women, men do what then need to, do what they can to provide for their families.

Men are good.

White Ribbon Day, for all its good points is a shallowly disguised vilification of men.

If you want to see an angry man try and sell me a ribbon.

Anonymous said...

I cant buy the ribbons or the red noses or the cuddly bear or anything associated to any charity… really if we want to give then just give I don’t give a rats arse about wearing something to prove that I’m a little better than the next idiot.

I support 3 females in my life and haven’t done anything less that love and support them. So I’m fucking supporting the Blokes day and only if I can go around for one day swearing my brains out and telling people how I think (without ramifications) instead of wearing a t-shirt, ribbon or drinking from a mug while wearing jeans and growing a fucking mustache…

Lady Pants said...

Violence in intimate relationships... in ANY relationship ... is disgusting.

Men are more victims to violence than women because it's socially sanctioned for men to hit or hurt other men. Disgusting. And whilst it's not socially sanctioned for men to hit women, such abuse occurs at far greater frequency than female-to-male intimate partner abuse. You and I could heartily debate the biological/societal reasons for such discrepancy in behaviour, i'm sure :)

But all this is not to say women don't act violently towards their partners - they do (and in the past I have) and it is totally out of line. I never want to treat someone I love like that ever again. even if he is bigger than me and I can't hurt him as much as he can hurt me. The intent is still fucked, even if it might seem like a bit of a joke.

Domestic violence is a horrendous abuse of power, whoever commits it. Let's not forget the less recognised but equally prevalent forms of domestic violence as well - emotional/psychological, verbal, sexual and financial. IE acting like a fucking cunt, whatever your gender.

Any commentator worth her/his salt should acknowledge that the rejection of such putrid acts is not a vilification of men but rather a vilification of totally unacceptable behaviour.

Your discussion regarding this seems a bit reactionary - does the discussion of domestic violence make you feel ashamed of being a man, or traditional 'male' behaviours? So much so that you must fire back with stereotypical masculine archetypal actions to justify your own existence? Men contribute so much more than just working dangerous jobs or what the fuck have you. You just over simplified your own gender. I have loved and continue to love men for a variety of reasons (oddly enough not very often because they perform some exotic and risky for of employment).

Speaking about domestic violence isn't about blaming me, but alerting the perpetrators and victims that it is NOT OK to act like this.

PS I'm ba-ack. Hi!

Lady Pants said...
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Lady Pants said...
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Lady Pants said...
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Lady Pants said...

WOAHH, blogger apparently agreed with my points so heartily it decided to add my post several times - sorry bout that!

Memphis Steve said...

If there were only men like you in public office then perhaps the government-mandated male-bashing would stop, or at least slow down a little. Unfortunately it seems unlikely. The war on males is fully underway and rolling along, flush with cash. Meanwhile, husband murderers and sex offenders who mutilate their husbands and boyfriends not only go free, but are celebrated for their crimes.

craig said...

seems a bit dramatic mate. are you on your rags?

i don't think the ribbon is being sold as "hit a man instead of a woman", it's just highlighting a cause. not to the detriment of the other.

do something with your anger. write to the prime minister, write to the charity and raise these questions. make a donation to a men's organisation.

this idea that men are somehow being downtrodden by women getting equal rights is just rubbish. you want to talk about equal rights? try being a woman for the past 500 years. as for the basic rights of men being marginilised - laugh! as homer simpson says, "i'm a white, middle aged male, my opinion is the only one that matters". and yes, this was written by a bloke.

marginilised rights - do you mean not getting a root when you want it? yeah you're right, that's just like not getting the vote for hundreds of years.


emma said...

Some men are "good". Some men aren't. Some women are "good". Some women aren't. Nothing wrong with raising money for those affected by the not so good men, it's all for a good cause. I like the idea of taking action to prevent violence against men as well or making it a "against violence full stop" ribbon. I don't see why it has to be one or the other. Having said that, I would still buy a ribbon. Don't see why those people should miss out just because society hasn't quite caught up yet. Why does it have to be one or the other?

Friday said...

I agree with Miss Smack on this one.

I have been on both sides of the coin. I have been belted by my husband and I have belted a bloke.

Either way, its a cunt act and I hate myself for it.

Its all about behaviour and about self control.

Good post and an excellent topic piece, its a sensitive issue.


Ps - can I just say Im so crushing on you right now!! Yr passion does things to meeeeeeee :P

unique_stephen said...

DOG3OY > I don't know mate - those three women you support are all potential survivors of your violent self - better get along and buy that ribbon and make a public vow.

Mrs Pants > Your blog is eating my comments and mine is regurgitating yours?? There are so many metaphors to mine from that but I'll leave them buried there.

My point is that from where I see it, the vast majority of men are particularly good.

And no I'm not ashamed by being a man, stereotypical or otherwise. Rather, I'm rarely happier than when I embrace my masculinity either with considered reflection or primal urgency. What I wont do is stand to be slandered by Marilyn French's brush without calling it for what it is.

It is good to see your ever awesome self back.

Steve > Mate, until the electorate is prepared to vote for a athiest *Cyrenaic headonist x-stripper I'm not sure I'd have a particularity long political carer.

* I'm not necessarily a signed up member of the Cyrenaic Epistemology

Craig > It's more that this one is a Red Rag issue for me.

Feminism is one of the most influential political forces working today - damned if I'm going to stand by whilst it tries to redefine men, masculinity and purports itself to be the only valid point of view on gender issues that are selfishly important to me. I don't for a moment believe that my views have any currency - but in this - my own little soapbox, I will air them with impunity.

Whilst I do have views on the issues around sex, gender, libido and a range of sex related social issues that I'm passionate about talking around, they are immaterial to this thesis.

Emma > Yeah, I'm happy to support anti violence, just not in a way that is divisive and hurtfully cultural stereotyping of men.

Friday > He wasn't nicking the last cold beer in the fridge was he?, cauz that's be a low act deserved of a clip upside his head.

Would you still be crushing on me if you knew I liked wankey imported beer (Italian tonight) and have just found my first gray hair?

craig said...

You can air your opinions with impunity. Doesn't make them logical.

What is wrong with feminism being an influential political force? Do you know that most women still don't earn as much as men? In some countries, women are still not entitled to vote?

Why does feminism have to redefine men? That's like me saying the black man can't vote because he stifles the white man's rights. It's bull mate.

Everyone deserves equal rights. Like it or not there are some members of our gender who are violent and the victims of this behaviour need to be supported by the men who represent our gender with dignity.

I will never understand men believing that women can't express their gender rights without feeling that it is impinging on their own. It is delusional. I have daughters - I want them to have equal rights. If god forbid a man ever hurts one of them and I don't get to him first, I'd wear a ribbon with pride.

craig said...

And to Memphis Steve - sorry mate, what "government-mandated male-bashing" - do you mean men getting paid more than women or them holding more positions of power in big business/politics?

What "war on males" is "fully underway"? Actually don't bother answering that. I don't want to hear a heap of unsupported facts. Talk about sweeping statements. Why don't we just put all women back in the kitchen so that our precious little male egos remain protected? Delusional.

As for the husband murderers and sex offenders who mutilate their husbands being celebrated for their crimes...I'd hardly call arrests, losing all your money, reputation and prison terms being "celebrated" for crimes. Most of these women were driven to their excessive, illegal acts from years of abuse.

We can't make our own gender stronger by slagging off the other gender. It just makes us weak and naive. It's like holding someone's head underwater while we punch the air with victory.

Equal rights for all.

ALL. No question. No gender divide.


Spiky Zora Jones said...

steve: You'e drawing lines and though you didn't ask people to step over them and pick sides, they will. then you say fuck you to the day that brings light to the violence in this world.

so what if it brings to light violence against WOMEN. If it stops one person from violence...isn't it worth it.

It's easy to say fuck you, when violence wasn't or isn't an everyday occurance. And especially of it wasn't your sister, cousin, mother...wife or daughter that was the victim of that violence.

It's a great day to support...most likely very many good men support it and helped make it the day it is.

don't be like the child that screams..."she got a day, why haven't I?" As if it was an extra scoop of ice scream on her cone.

when it comes to measuring how full the cup of men is compared to the cup of women...look at history, which cup seems to pour over it's brim.

I know the point you are trying to just was not made well. maybe if you would have left out the fuck you...well.

any day that brings awarness to stop violence is it be for women, men, children...animals...etc.

steve that is my opinion...but I still love you. xxx

unique_stephen said...

Just found a day I can support.

Ms Smack said...

That was a great video Steve.

I think that its typically the same as White Ribbon Day actually, except guys grow a mo, (wear a ribbon) for a cause they believe in (testicular cancer) and amazing, women (not men) appear in the video supporting them.

I can't see any chicks saying 'omg, I'm not supporting that cos it's just for guys balls' they're targeting CANCER, the same as White Ribbon Day is targeting VIOLENCE.

Just sayin'

Memphis Steve said...

Craig, I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but kissing feminsts asses and being a total suck-up won't get you laid. Pull your head out of your ass and open your eyes.

Lady Pants said...

Really? I was just thinking Craig and I could totally make out.

Wise up. Feminism (well my version anyway) is about creating a world where neither males nor females are subjected to gender specific/heteronormative assumptions. Kinda like the whole "all men bash women" thing. As a cultural and political construct, feminism is fluid and multifaceted. You're fighting a 1970s version, which for the most part no longer exists. Or at least it isn't the majority view. Get out if the backwoods and get with the program.

unique_stephen said...

Yes Mistress.

Anonymous said...

No need to get nasty Memphis. I don't need to get laid - I have a beautiful, feminist wife who I adore and she adores me. My priority is that my daughters grow up in a world where they are regarded as equals, where feminism isn't a dirty word. But thanks for reducing my heartfelt beliefs to "feminist ass kissing". Charming mate. You just summed up why feminism is so important in a few words. All the best. Craig.

Memphis Steve said...

LadyPants, The version of feminism that currently dominates Washington D.C., the United Nations, and Australia, too, is by no means any pretense of an equal rights movement. In fact, it was an Australian court that recently ruled that CEDAW, the feminist UN treaty the Australian government happily signed, does not mandate equality of the sexes under the law, but active discrimination against males. If that's backwoods to you then I'd be curious to know what you consider mainstream, because that's what's dominating most Western nations' policies right this second. And that's the law for all of Australia. That's why more and more women, including many who once called themselves feminists, are today fighting against it.

Craig, no need to get nasty? I wasn't even talking to you when you started in on me, declaring that anything I had to say was 'unsupported facts.' Anything that doesn't perfectly coincide with your dogma, or more accurately your wife's dogma, you casually dismiss without bothering to consider, apparently. Unique_Stephen can provide you with plenty of facts that don't fit the feminist dogma, as can I. But what good does it do when your mind is made up and your eyes are closed? I hope you only have daughters, because any son you have is growing up in a world in which he is a second class citizen at best, and if he's white he's even less than that. And you are enabling it.

Does your feminist wife have any books written by the leaders of the feminist movement? Stephen mentioned one author you should read first thing: Marilyn French. Just take a quick peek into a few of her books, or Catherine Mackinnon, or Gloria Steinem even. It might open your eyes just a crack to what feminism really means. I'll give you a hint, fully supported by those same books which you can verify for yourself, modern feminism is not about equality of the sexes.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Memphis, you're stepping over the line when you talk about me raising sons who will be second class citizens. That just shows how closed your eyes are - you haven't heard a word I've said. I advocate equal rights for all.
No gender, no race divide.

No point talking any further with me mate, you're wasting your breath. Like I said, all the best. Subject closed for me. Craig.

Memphis Steve said...
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Memphis Steve said...

Here, this is for Lady Pants.

Here's Tammy Bruce, former leader of NOW in Los Angeles, talking about how feminism has changed for the worse.

And finally, here is a reading of statements from the leaders of the feminist movement and authors of womens studies textbooks demonstrating exactly what feminism is about.

And just for the heck of it, there's this

Anonymous said...

Sorry mate, I'd rather go home and hug my girls. Craig.

Ms Smack said...

This is a great thread Steve. It's allowed people of both arguments to have a say. That's what I like about Blogging. IT allows a platform for (mature) argument between people that are not politicians - but community members.

Craig, I think your opinions are brilliant. If/when you decide to blog, or have a blog, I'd be happy to stop by and have a read.

Lady Pants! You're the best!


unique_stephen said...

Thanks Smack, Steve, Lady Pants, Craig, et alii.

It's an issue that I think is deserved of some air. And yes, Lady Pants is the best. I've a solid blog crush on her. Wrangling sexual politics with Lady is our foreplay. One day we'll get it together to consummate our relationship with a real life beer and an argument. I feel tingly in anticipation.
(just privately I think she'll tear me a new one).

For the record:
The greater part of the feminist philosophy and moment I agree with, mostly. I'm certainly all for "equality", especially in pay, health, work, education, political access, social leadership, the list goes on. I can't really say I'm uncomfortable with any of the massive gains that women have made in society. But as I said above - I don't hold that the loose affiliations of ideas collected under the banner of feminism are necessarily the only valid points of view on sex and gender and I do think that, at worst there is a misandric flavor to feminism and at best that there are mens issues that are being ignored because they are not "PC" - If you don't think it is important have a read of Maggie Hamilton's Book - What's Happening To Our Boys? or just about anything by Warren Farrell. As an avowed atheist I'm uncomfortable with some of the religion peddled through Paul Nathanson and Katherine K. Young's books but, along with Farrell they should be standard reading for any gender studies adherent.

So yes, I don't think it hurts to call out misandry, after all: men are good.

Lady Pants said...

Memphis, Doll, there are no 'leaders' of the feminist movement. It's not like we have a election. You'll note that the feminists who are most easily conjured in the public consciousness are those whose views are most passionate, extreme and offensive to the masses (whomever the 'masses' maybe). It's a media/politics thing. Pisses people off and makes for good viewing.

I don't know much about this legal finding you quote, and thus am not in a position to discuss it with any degree of authority.

I happen to be a GENDER - its not call "women's" - studies major from one of Australia's most revered universities. This does not make me anymore of an expert on feminism than the next schmoo on the street, but it has given me an insight to the face of contemporary australian feminism,in its academic context. Funnily enough we actually talked a lot about men, and how the modern world fails them. One of the subjects I enjoyed the most and performed the best in was entitled "Cultures of Masculinity". We spoke about the different incarnations of the male in Australian society, the difficulties and the pleasures, the visceral and the cerebral expressions of manhood, and the ways in which feminism could support men to have a more authentic experience of themselves as something other than a product of their gonads.

We don't hate men. We want male voices in this discussion. We want solutions for humankind, not just for women.

Women's/GENDER studies doesn't have textbooks, btw, even at an elementary level. I read papers, like any other academic, with the occasional classic text thrown in (Judith Butler's "Bodies that Matter", brilliantly written with solid logic) springs to mind.

Greer was never on own reading lists, although, funnily enough I am reading "The Female Eunuch" presently. There are some excellent points raised in the book, and there is cringe-worthy reactionary dribble as well. I read it as a historical text, situated in another place and time. I read it with a knowledge of Greer's character. Like the two Steves, She does't mind stirring the pot and getting a rise. But feminism Greer ain't. She's just another feminist. Like me.

Thanks for all the big-ups guys. Nothing like a good old gender politics debate to get me back into ze blogging spirit.

Stephen rest assured I would provide you with your new sphincter with all the delicacy you could expect from me. That is, not terribly much.

x LP

Lady Pants said...

ps excuse horrendous typos. I'm snotty and hallucinating slightly. And I don't 'do' editing x

emma said...

oh Lady Pants you rocked my world. i have to go check out ya blog x

Friday said...

I think I officially love you now.


Koops said...

Hahahaha! This is great!

The Black Sea Patrol Boat Captain said...

For what it's worth, I'm with Craig. And Pants.

By the way, doesn't whingeing about being a marginalised (wtf?) man make you less manly? Just saying.